Legislature(1997 - 1998)
03/06/1998 08:15 AM House FIN
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE
March 6, 1998
8:15 A.M.
TAPE HFC 98 - 56, Side 1
TAPE HFC 98 - 56, Side 2
CALL TO ORDER
Co-Chair Mark Hanley called the House Finance Committee
meeting to order at 8:15 a.m.
PRESENT
Co-Chair Hanley Representative Kelly
Co-Chair Therriault Representative Kohring
Representative Davies Representative Martin
Representative Davis Representative Moses
Representative Foster Representative Mulder
Representative Grussendorf
ALSO PRESENT
Barbara Murray, Community Jails Program Coordinator,
Department of Corrections; Denny DeWitt, Staff,
Representative Mulder; Kip Knudson, Staff, Representative
Hanley; Nancy Slagle, Director, Division of Administrative
Services, Department of Transportation; Captain Kelly
Mitchell, Alaska Marine Highway System, Department of
Transportation and Public Facilities; Geron Bruce,
Legislative Liaison, Department of Fish and Game; Michael A.
Conway, Division of Air and Water Quality, Department of
Environmental Conservation; Barbara Frank, Director,
Division of Administrative Services, Department of
Environmental Conservation; Eric Swanson, Budget Analyst,
Department of Administration.
The following testified via the teleconference network:
Dino Allen, President, Foster Care Review Board, Anchorage;
Nikki MacCabe, Social Worker, Foster Care Review Board,
Department of Administration, Anchorage.
SUMMARY
HB 325 "An Act making appropriations for the operating
and loan program expenses of state government, for
certain programs, and to capitalize funds; making
appropriations under art. IX, sec. 17(c),
Constitution of the State of Alaska, from the
constitutional budget reserve fund; and providing
for an effective date."
HB 325 was HELD in Committee for further
consideration.
HOUSE BILL NO. 325
"An Act making appropriations for the operating and
loan program expenses of state government, for certain
programs, and to capitalize funds; making
appropriations under art. IX, sec. 17(c), Constitution
of the State of Alaska, from the constitutional budget
reserve fund; and providing for an effective date."
RESULTS BASED GOVERNMENT
Alaska Marine Highway System
ComFish - AYK Region
Air and Water Quality
Community Jails
Citizen's Foster Care Review
ALASKA MARINE HIGHWAY SYSTEM
Co-Chair Hanley provided members with Amendment 1 (copy on
file). Amendment 1 contains the mission statement and
performance measures for the Alaska Marine Highway System.
NANCY SLAGLE, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES,
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION stated that the Department
supports Amendment 1 with the deletion of two performance
measures. The Department of Transportation and Public
Facilities recommends deletion of customer satisfaction and
percentage of on-time departures. She observed that it is
hard to quantify customer satisfaction. An attempt is made
to assess consumer satisfaction through passenger surveys
taken on the vessels. She stressed that it would be
difficult to accumulate the information for use as a
measurement of overall performance. She maintained that
increases in ridership and revenues would indicate customer
satisfaction.
Ms. Slagle noted that many variables affect the ability of
the vessels to leave on time. Many variables are out of the
Department's control.
Representative Martin questioned if the performance measure
would be a good way to determine the cause of delays. Ms.
Slagle emphasized that it would be difficult to assemble the
information.
CAPTAIN KELLY MITCHELL, ALASKA MARINE HIGHWAY SYSTEM,
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION AND PUBLIC FACILITIES explained
that vessels routinely deviate from their actual departure
time due to passenger and vehicle load and tide times.
Representative Martin stated that he did not expect the
ferry to arrive or depart at the exact scheduled time. He
reiterated that the information would be a useful
performance measure.
Representative Grussendorf emphasized that ferries may be
delayed for cargo transportation. He acknowledged
Representative Martin's concerns regarding a ferry delay to
accommodate legislative staff arriving in Haines.
Co-Chair Hanley asked if the information is currently
tracked. Captain Kelly explained that the information is
not centrally located. Co-Chair Hanley spoke in support of
the performance measure. He asserted that some delays must
be manageable.
In response to a question by Representative Davies, Captain
Kelly stated that it would be an extremely intense
administrative process to gather the information from the
ship logs. He noted that there are 9 vessels with multiple
port calls. A database would have to be developed.
Representative Davies agreed that the information would
provide a good management tool. He encouraged collection of
the data, even if it is not used as a performance measure.
Representative Martin spoke in support of the performance
measure. He stressed that the data would help solve day to
day problems.
Ms. Slagle noted that delays are monitored on an individual
basis. She reiterated the difficulty of consolidating the
information into a central point. She observed that
shoreside positions have decreased. Personnel are not
available to put the information into a usable format.
Representative Kelly spoke in support of the performance
measure.
Captain Kelly noted that a computer network system is being
developed to standardize the system. Each master has his
own laptop computer.
Co-Chair Hanley stressed the importance of the performance
measure. He noted that schedules could be computerized.
Data could be entered at arrival and departure. Notes could
include reasons for delay. The system could be set by
region and by boat. He estimated that the data entry would
take 5 minutes per port. He indicated that he would be
sympathetic to a capital request, if needed. He observed
that the Aurora was held for four hours to allow a high
school basketball team to arrive. He stated that he would
not be critical of this type of delay. He stressed that the
information would be useful.
In response to a question by Representative Martin, Captain
Kelly noted that employee overtime is tracked on computer.
Representative Grussendorf observed that weather, passenger,
freight, and mechanical difficulties could categorize
delays. Co-Chair Hanley assumed that categories would be
utilized. He acknowledged that not all delays would fit
into a category.
In response to a question by Representative Grussendorf, Co-
Chair Hanley observed that the computer system could
identify delays by boat and region. Representative
Grussendorf concluded that general information would be
recorded by boat.
Representative Davies emphasized the need for a relational
database, so that the information can be utilized in any
form.
Co-Chair Hanley MOVED to Delete "Customer satisfaction."
There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Representative Davies proposed the addition of a long-term
performance measure of the percent of roadless communities
with daily service, by region. He stressed that the long-
term goal is to transform the ferry system into a more daily
boat oriented system.
Co-Chair Hanley suggested that the performance measure be
the average number of days of service per week in roadless
communities.
Representative Grussendorf questioned the definition of
roadless. He observed that Juneau, Ketchikan and Sitka are
roadless. Co-Chair Hanley noted that there are some
roadless communities that do not have service.
Representative Davies stated that it would be up to the
Alaska Marine Highway System to produce the definitions.
Representative Grussendorf maintained that the Legislature
has created some problems by requiring the Alaska Marine
Highway System, with reduced funding, to continue service to
some communities on the ferry schedule.
Co-Chair Hanley suggested that Representative Davies work
with the Department to draft a performance measure to
address his concern.
Representative Martin MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 1, mission
statement and performance measures for the Alaska Marine
Highway System.
Ms. Slagle clarified that the Department has considered the
addition of a performance measure relating to the number of
port visits by community already served.
COMFISH - ARCTIC YUKON KUSKOKWIN REGION
Co-Chair Hanley provided members with Amendment 2, mission
statement and performance measures for the Department of
Fish and Game, ComFish (copy on file).
GERON BRUCE, LEGISLATIVE LIAISON, DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND
GAME stated that the Department of Fish and Game supports
Amendment 2.
Representative Foster maintained that Western Alaska was
better off without management by the Department of Fish and
Game.
Mr. Bruce acknowledged problems with Nome area fisheries.
He noted that there has been an extended period of poor
survival and poor returns. He maintained that this is due
to a combination of factors, many of which are beyond the
power of the Department to affect.
Representative Foster reiterated concerns with the condition
the Nome area fisheries.
Representative Kelly questioned if the mission statement
should include management for abundance.
Representative Davies suggested that the mission statement
provide optimum harvest of fish. He noted that it is part
of the mission to provide as much abundance as is
reasonable.
Co-Chair Hanley observed that the suggested language would
satisfy concerns by Representative Mulder. Representative
Mulder was concerned with maximum sustained yield. Co-Chair
Hanley noted that the suggested language change would avoid
the problem of competing salmon species on the Kenai River.
Representative Grussendorf observed that the sustained yield
principle is a constitutional charge. Co-Chair Hanley
clarified that "sustain yield" would not be removed.
"Optimum" would be added before "harvest".
Representative Davies MOVED to add "optimum" before
"harvest". There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Representative Grussendorf referred to the number of
escapement objectives met compared to the total number of
objectives and the number of allocation objectives met
compared to the number of objectives. Representative
Grussendorf estimated that these performance measures would
result in more realistic objectives.
Representative Foster expressed further frustrations with
fish and game management in his area. Representative Davies
emphasized that the performance measures would help to meet
Representative Foster's concerns.
Representative Davis MOVED to add "total" before "number" on
the last performance measure. There being NO OBJECTION, it
was so ordered.
Representative Mulder MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 2, mission
statement and performance measures for the AYK Region
Fisheries Management. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so
ordered.
Co-Chair Hanley noted that the mission statement and
performance measures could be substituted for other areas in
ComFish.
DIVISION OF AIR AND WATER QUALITY
Co-Chair Hanley provided members with Amendment 3 (copy on
file). Amendment 3 contains the mission statement and
performance measures for the Division of Air and Water
Quality, Department of Environmental Conservation.
MICHAEL A. CONWAY, DIVISION OF AIR AND WATER QUALITY,
DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION explained that the
Department is concerned that the first two performance
measures be related to permitting activities. He noted that
there are factors outside of the Department's control.
Co-Chair Hanley MOVED to ADOPT the addition of "relating to
permitting activities" at the end of the first two
performance measures. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so
ordered.
Representative Kelly expressed concern with the use of
"prevent" in the mission statement. Co-Chair Hanley
questioned if "prevent" means to prevent all emissions. Mr.
Conway noted that the Department is involved in some
prevention programs for non-point source pollution problems.
He stressed that all activities are not prevented. Co-Chair
Hanley observed that "prevent" has a different meaning than
"prevention". Mr. Conway pointed out that the permitting
process looks at treatment technologies available.
Co-Chair Hanley acknowledged that the mission statement
could be misinterpreted to mean that the Department is going
to prevent all air and water emissions.
Co-Chair Therriault referred to the percent reduction in the
mixing zone. He asked the measure of success.
(Tape Change, HFC 98 -56, Side 2)
Co-Chair Therriault emphasized that the Department should
not deny mixing zones because they want to see a decline in
the reported number.
Representative Davies asked what would be measured as
productivity. Mr. Conway noted that there is information
available in the mining and oil industry to show that
economic activity is occurring. Permitting activities can
look at economic activity. The goal is that emission and
effluent standards are met in a way that is related to
economic development. He observed that the Department does
not have the ability to do this at this time.
Representative Davies summarized that total dollar volume
could be considered. He stressed that it would be important
to normalize data by region.
Co-Chair Hanley stated that the percent reduction in number
of mixing zones should be normalized. He observed that
greater economic activity would increase the number of
mixing zones. The average size of existing mixing zones
would have to be considered.
Representative Foster observed that four of the performance
measures refer to specific industries. He emphasized that
there are noxious emissions from urban areas. He suggested
that "and or groups of people" should be added.
Mr. Conway agreed that there are emissions related to
population centers. He clarified that "permitted facility"
relates to municipal outflows.
Co-Chair Hanley noted that the performance measure covers
municipal power and light plants. Vehicle emissions could
also be included. Mr. Conway suggested the use of
"industrial and municipal facilities".
Representative Grussendorf suggested "governmental".
Co-Chair Hanley observed that "industry or community" could
be used.
In response to a question by Representative Mulder, Mr.
Conway noted that some activities require storm water
approvals. They are not permitted in the same way as a
facility.
Co-Chair Hanley recommended looking at the amount time a
permittee is out of compliance, instead of a permitted
facility.
Representative Davies suggested "for a particular category
of permitted facilities" be used instead of "industry".
Representative Kelly recommended the deletion of "for a
particular industry". Representative Davies questioned how
it would be measured without a qualifier.
Amendment 3 was HELD in Committee for further consideration.
COMMUNITY JAILS
Co-Chair Hanley provided members with Amendment 4 (copy on
file). Amendment 4 contains the mission statement and
performance measures for Community Jails.
BARBARA MURRAY, COMMUNITY JAILS PROGRAM COORDINATOR,
DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS stated that the Department agrees
with Amendment 4.
Representative Mulder emphasized that the percentage of
community jail prisoner days in compliance with Community
Jail Standards would place an unobtainable level of
expectation. He observed that most of the community jails
do not meet the Community Jail Standards. He maintained
that the performance measure puts a false expectation that
upgrades would be funded. He clarified that the Community
Jails Task Force set the standards.
Representative Davies stressed that it is a measure of how
well the Department of Corrections is doing. He suggested
that the Legislature might want to adopt its own standards.
Representative Grussendorf thought that many of the
standards were driven by court decisions regarding how
different categories of prisoners should be held. He
emphasized that the state of Alaska accepts some liability
by the fact that the standards have not been met. He
supported the performance measure. He pointed out that the
measure would encourage compliance to the standards, which
would reduce the State's liability.
Representative Martin expressed concern that the State pays
for empty beds in community jails.
Representative Davies suggested that the second performance
measure be directed at individual jails. He suggested that
the second performance measure be the percentage of prisoner
days in a community jail in compliance with Community Jail
Standards.
Co-Chair Hanley noted that the goal is to provide short-term
community jail confinement of persons held under state law.
Representative Mulder observed that it is difficult to do
performance-based measurements or standards. Escapes and
cost are the two major considerations. The number of days
in compliance with court orders is an additional
consideration.
KIP KNUDSON, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE HANLEY observed that the
universe is confinement. The universe consists of a series
of circles. The progression of lowest level confinement to
the highest level of confinement is:
* Confinement by village public safety officers;
* Community jails;
* Municipal jails; to
* State or federal jails.
Mr. Knudson observed that the number of jails is not being
increased or decreased. Success is measured by the jail's
ability to accept prisoners. He observed that the
Legislature could change the universe of confinement. They
could decide that there should be fewer community jails or
more community residential center (CRC) beds.
Representative Davies agreed that the question is not
whether there should be more community jails. The issue is
how to evaluate existing community jails. He maintained
that cost is an efficiency and effectiveness issue. He
asserted that the success of the program is determined by
availability and the ability to confine prisoners according
to whatever standard is set.
Co-Chair Hanley expressed concern over who sets the
standards and what the standards are.
Ms. Murray explained that the assessment tool was based on
the Governor's Task Force standards.
Representative Davies MOVED to DELETE the second measure,
percentage of community jail days in compliance with
Community Jail Standards. He did not think that the measure
would provide anything additional to the first measure and
that it would be a lot of work. Co-Chair Hanley agreed with
the deletion. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
DENNY DEWITT, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE MULDER explained that
the second measure was added because of the variety of jail
size. He pointed out that if a small number of larger jails
were out of compliance the first standard would indicate a
higher level of performance than would be warranted.
Representative Davies suggested that the first measure be
weighted by the number of beds. He questioned if data is
available for the second measure. Ms. Murray stated that it
would be hard to provide the data.
Co-Chair Hanley asked if the annual compliance review looked
at annual or daily performance. Ms. Murray clarified that
the review is annual. The administrator at each jail
utilizes the standards to check their facilities monthly.
Representative Martin felt that the data should be
available.
Representative Davies MOVED to ADOPT "weighted" before
"percentage" on the first performance measure. There being
NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Co-Chair Hanley MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 4 as amended.
There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
CITIZEN'S FOSTER CARE REVIEW BOARD
Co-Chair Hanley provided members with Amendment 5 (copy on
file). Amendment 5 contains the mission statement and
performance measures for the Citizen's Foster Care Review
Board. He noted that the Board requested that the second
performance measure be amended to change "upheld" to
"follow". He MOVED to ADOPT the amendment to Amendment 5,
insert "follow" and delete "upheld". There being NO
OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
NIKKI MACCABE, SOCIAL WORKER, FOSTER CARE REVIEW BOARD,
DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION, ANCHORAGE stated that the
Board and Administration support Amendment 5 as amended.
Representative Davies MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 5 as amended.
There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 9:35 a.m.
House Finance Committee 3 3/6/98am
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